ukulele theory for noobs discussion thread

[NukeDOC]

ok now that i have posted about a year's worth of weekly lessons, im opening up this thread for those that are looking for clarification in the instruction.

please lets not turn this into another music theory for SCHOLARS thread.

in the Navy, we had this phenomenon called PFM. stood for Pure F'ing Magic. i dont believe in that. there is no such thing. and i know there are others out there that feel the same.

so when someone asks how you play a C chord. thats easy enough to answer. but what if i were the one asking? my next question is why is it a C chord? it is this fundamental that can open up so much of the theory to the average person IMO. but you cant answer them with "well first you gotta understand how in the key of C youve got your...." instead you would say "come take a walk with me so we can talk about it, because there's more to it than you think".

so lets let the discussion begin. for you out there with the drive and the patience to know that youre not going to learn it all overnight, please read over the material. and ask me questions here as you are going along. and to the best of my knowledge and ability i will answer them. and if i cant, and "you out there" know the answer, feel free to jump in. but please KEEP IT SIMPLE. no beginner wants to hear all the pentatonic philharmonic gin and tonic terminology just yet. and please keep it as it pertains to ukulele.

 

[Ukuleleblues]

A C Chord consists of the Notes C E and G. There is a fixed relationship between the notes that make up any particlular chord type (Major, minor 7th, etc).

 

[cpatch]

First, it's worth pointing out that this discussion refers to NukeDOC's awesome tutorial thread here:

http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11264

Second, with respect to the C chord, as Ukuleleblues points out there is a relationship between the different notes that make up a particular chord type. In the case of a major chord (such as C), it's the 1st, 3rd, and 5th notes of the scale. (Scales are explained in the tutorial.) A C scale is:

C D E F G A B C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

So the 1st note is a C, the third note is an E, and the fifth note is a G. Thus a C chord consists of the notes C, E, and G.

Try this on the other scales given in the tutorial and you'll quickly see why a G chord consists of G, B, and D; and an F chord consists of F, A, and C.

Once you understand this it becomes easy to build other chords since they each have their own relationship "formula" based on the scale. For example, while the formula for a major chord is 135 (the 1st, the 3rd, and the 5th), the formula for a major 7th chord is 1357 (C, E, G, and B for a Cmaj7). And as NukeDOC points out in his tutorial, once you know the formula (and the scales) it's easy to figure out how to finger the chords on your uke up and down the neck without the need for a chord chart.

Thanks NukeDOC for an excellent job laying down some of the basics!

CORRECTION: As Dibblet points out later in this thread, I incorrectly stated that the formula for a 7th chord is 1357. The formula for a 7th is actually 135b7 (for reasons Dibblet goes into), or C, E, G, and Bb for a C7. 1357 is the formula for a major 7th chord. I've corrected my original post above. Sorry about that.

 

[freedive135]

Ah I get it now, how the 1,3 and 5 formula works, it not just for the C chord its for Major Chords.

Man am I slow, no wonder my Dad always had to draw me a picture...
Repetiton isn't just for practice it's for explanations too.:wallbash:

Thanks NukeDOC and Cpatch...
More questions to follow I am sure!!!!

 

[jfcote]

The theory for Noob thread is very helpful. I vote it is made a sticky.

 

[NukeDOC]

The theory for Noob thread is very helpful. I vote it is made a sticky.

it is a sticky. this thread is not, however, since it is the discussion thread pertaining to the theory thread. glad it helps.

 

[gheepn]

Thanks for the lesson. I just had a Ukulele breakthrough. I feel bad for my strings tonight.:worship:

 

[NukeDOC]

Thanks for the lesson. I just had a Ukulele breakthrough. I feel bad for my strings tonight.:worship:

im glad it could be of some help!

 

[jimijUKEbox]

sorry, no question here... but thank you very much for doing this nukeDOC!! really appreciate it. I'm a beginner and finding this very, very helpful. I tried reading Ukulele Fretboard and Roadmaps but still a little bit too advanced for me. Your lessons are a great platform into these kind of books.

edit: oops... just saw the discussion thread for the nukedoc theory sticky. would cut and past but it would be the same thing.

no worries. i moved it. glad it helped you out! - NDOC

 

[kailua]

:worship:Thanks for this awesome piece of work!! I'm a newbie and appreciate it when you talk R E A L S L O W. Mahalo for your help.

 

[Dibblet]

...
the formula for a 7th chord is 1357 (C, E, G, and B for a C7)
...

Close but not quite. A C7 chord comes from the scale of F I'm afraid. This is done specially to make music theory more difficult and confuse the beginner. Music scholars really don't want newbies to be able to understand this stuff so they deliberately throw in some extra difficulties.

Here's how a scale of F goes. I've extended it a bit to the right to make it easier later.

F G A Bb C D E F G A Bb C D E etc

so pick 1, 3, 5, and 7 starting on C from this scale and you get C, E, G and Bb. (Note Bb rather than B)

You can hear the relationship between a C7 and F. Play a C7 chord and listen to it. It wants to go somewhere - sounds unfinished yes? Now play an F chord. Ahhh! That's where it wanted to go. Please try it. It's really obvious.

The full name for a 7th chord is a dominant 7th. "Dominant" is another name for the 5th note in a major scale. So a 7th is a chord built on the 5th degree of some scale. You have to go round the cycle of fifths back one or count down 5 steps from the root to find out what the scale is.

The dominant 7th is the most common 7th so we normally just call it a 7th chord. The chord build from the first note of the major scale is usually called a major seventh. Major scale - major seventh - that kind of makes sense even if it's inconsistent with the dominant seventh terminology. So the chord cpatch came up with (C E G B) is a CMaj7 chord.

I hope this hasn't thoroughly confused everyone. I learnt all this stuff when I was very young and I do realise it's incredibly difficult for those coming to it later.

 

[Dibblet]

...
please lets not turn this into another music theory for SCHOLARS thread.
...
but please KEEP IT SIMPLE. no beginner wants to hear all the pentatonic philharmonic gin and tonic terminology just yet. and please keep it as it pertains to ukulele.

I think I just violated that. Sorry.

 

[eyeball]

Ooo Kay,

I've read the ukulele theory for noobs thread and it's good stuff. I was following the method of chord building and though "Hey, this is good!!"

The question that I have is based arounf the E chord. Using the formula of taking the root (E) and raising it by four semi-tones to get G# and then by another 3 semi-tones I get B, giving me E-G#-B. So far so good.

I then need to transpose that onto the fretboard so:

1st string is an A so raise that by a tone to 2f (B).
2nd string is E which is the root so leave it alone (hold on a minute, that doesn't look right)
3rd string is a C so....

Nope, I'm lost. Why are the G, C and E strings fretted at the fourth fret?

My head hurts.

 

[Dibblet]

Ooo Kay,

I've read the ukulele theory for noobs thread and it's good stuff. I was following the method of chord building and though "Hey, this is good!!"

The question that I have is based arounf the E chord. Using the formula of taking the root (E) and raising it by four semi-tones to get G# and then by another 3 semi-tones I get B, giving me E-G#-B. So far so good.

I then need to transpose that onto the fretboard so:

1st string is an A so raise that by a tone to 2f (B).
2nd string is E which is the root so leave it alone (hold on a minute, that doesn't look right)
3rd string is a C so....

Nope, I'm lost. Why are the G, C and E strings fretted at the fourth fret?

My head hurts.

There's nothing wrong with your analysis.
Let's follow it through to it's conclusion.

1st string is an A so raise that by a tone to B 2nd fret.
2nd string is E which is the root so leave it alone
3rd string is a C so raise it to E - 4th fret
4th string is G so raise it to G# - 1st fret.

we get 1402 which is a valid E chord. It's not the one most commonly used though. There are typically many possibilities for a particular chord name. The E you are familiar with is probably 4442 - G#, E, G# B which is equally valid. You'll see that the difference is that the first has the E in twice whereas the second has the G# twice.

If I wanted to be difficult and use technical terms I could say that the E is doubled in the first voicing and the G# doubled in the second.

 

[Joe H]

First off thanks to NukeDOC for doing this. Now I'm a little lost when it comes to building 7ths. Where does 2223 for D7 come from?

 

[Dibblet]

First off thanks to NukeDOC for doing this. Now I'm a little lost when it comes to building 7ths. Where does 2223 for D7 come from?

D7 comes from the scale of G because D is the 5th note of the scale of G major.

G A B C D E F# G A B C D ...

to find the notes in the D7 chord count D as 1 and pick 1, 3, 5 and 7. We get D, F#, A, and C.

Now if we follow the same procedure as eyeball above we get.

1st string is A. This is in the chord so leave it alone.
2nd string is E. Move it up to F# - 2nd fret.
3rd string is C. This is in the chord so leave it alone.
4th string is G. Move it up to A 2nd fret.

This gives us a sort of D7. It is sometimes called the Hawaian D7. It works but it is a bit odd in that it doesn't have a D in it! Lets see if we can get one with all the notes in.

Let's put the D in first. The easiest D to add is on the third string where we currently have a C. Changing that to the second fret would give us 2220 (A, D, F#, A).

Now we have a D but we've lost the C. Where can we get a C from? Well the A is doubled at the moment so let's change one of them into a C. Take the first string and move that to the 3rd fret to get a C. There we are, we got the familair 2223 and a D7 containing all 4 of its notes (A, D, F#, C).

 

[zataonline]

Nukedoc Thanx... YOu're awesome... :shaka:

Now, i'm wondering about how do you know where are all the notes in the key thru the fret board?

I've learn a Major pattern that work for every keys but I know only one pattern which I still don't know where are the other notes for the rest of the fretboard.

Sorry if my eng is not easy to understand and Thank you very much.

 

[eyeball]

Thanks Diblet,

That makes a lot of sense. Good to know that I was correct in my logic! I shall carry on chord building!

And thanks to Nukedoc for the lessons!

 

[uke puke]

Thanks Nuke Doc for all of the great info. This a huge help. Here is my question:
You have shown how you can play all of the individual notes of a scale to accent or play over a certain chord...I have read about certain progressions of chords that fit together. I have heard of one very basic progression called the 1,4,5 progression.

Take the C scale for example. CDEFGABC
The 1,4,5 would be. C,F,G. since those are the 1,4,5 notes of the scale.
CDEFGABC
Then you can play a progression of the major chords for each of those notes. Cmaj, Fmaj, Gmaj. and they will relate or sound good togeher.
Correct?

Now if we are going to play that progression of chords, and want to solo, or add single notes over the series of chords, do you play the single notes of the C scale over top of all three of the chords (C,F,G)? or do you need to play the different scales related to each chord?

Sorry for the long post, and im not sure if this makes much sense, but any help is much appreciated.:shaka:

 

[NukeDOC]

Thanks Nuke Doc for all of the great info. This a huge help. Here is my question:
You have shown how you can play all of the individual notes of a scale to accent or play over a certain chord...I have read about certain progressions of chords that fit together. I have heard of one very basic progression called the 1,4,5 progression.

Take the C scale for example. CDEFGABC
The 1,4,5 would be. C,F,G. since those are the 1,4,5 notes of the scale.
CDEFGABC
Then you can play a progression of the major chords for each of those notes. Cmaj, Fmaj, Gmaj. and they will relate or sound good togeher.
Correct?

Now if we are going to play that progression of chords, and want to solo, or add single notes over the series of chords, do you play the single notes of the C scale over top of all three of the chords (C,F,G)? or do you need to play the different scales related to each chord?

Sorry for the long post, and im not sure if this makes much sense, but any help is much appreciated.:shaka:

the short answer: yes.

for the most part, yes you would play only the notes of the C scale because the chords being played are in the key of C. but there are instances where you can play a sharp/flat note in there. many times you can bend a note (pushing the string up to change the pitch) to make it a half tone higher and it will sound good even though that note does not fall in the key.

one of my guidelines when i improvise a solo is to make sure that each note that falls on an actual beat is in the key. between those beats, i can pretty much play whatever i want. but thats just my own style. it is neither right or wrong.

but having a good foundation will open this up to you. so yes, start out with only the C scale when playing in the key of C. as you become proficient, experiment more and more with what sounds good to your ear.