Ukulele Cosmos

[chris667]

Ha Ha! You guys fall for it everytime.

If this is a reference to me leaving up a typo on another thread which you corrected, I apologise and will not do it again. It was just a typo that made me laugh, I didn't mean any harm.

 

[dancephoto]

I never saw Cosmos. Could someone give an example of a post or series of posts that you think is different in some beneficial way from what we see here on UU? Thanks.

 

[chris667]

I never saw Cosmos. Could someone give an example of a post or series of posts that you think is different in some beneficial way from what we see here on UU? Thanks.

I'm not sure how to answer that question really, as I don't know what you would define as "a beneficial way". Suffice to say I miss it and there was a lot of knowledge on there that isn't on here. Bits of the Cosmos went back to the days when there were only a few ukulele players in the UK and they all knew each other personally.

 

[ploverwing]

Sorry to somewhat hijack the thread; as there are some comments that parallel/compare/contrast Cosmos and UU forums, I just want to pop in quickly with a thought to ponder regarding the current flavour of moderation. This is not me being defensive personally (because honestly, take it or leave it, that's up to you), but me as a current moderator explaining our underlying intent when we moderate posts.

This forum is generously and graciously hosted by a family-run business. This forum also has a set of rules that each member agrees to when they sign up. These are the two fundamental considerations that flavour each of our moderator team's decisions. That means we may seem more strict in interpretation, and usually it's to err on the safest side. Not an easy balance, and many may argue that it tilts towards censorship. Ok. That's how our team (of two volunteers) chooses to moderate. Look at that, it's even in the name! We are moderate moderators!!

At any rate, while I was never on Cosmos, on behalf of those who were, and who deeply miss it's availability, I am very sorry that it is no longer accessible to you. It does sound like it is a significant loss of community, and that is a shame.

 

[Patty]

Patty, I think it is outrageous to suggest that all the regulars on the Cosmos were racist or sexist, or indeed that all the members there were a homogenous group with the same attitudes and behaviour. Did you ever actually join? I don't recall seeing you there.

Right, it would be outrageous. But I never said that, and I apologize if I left that impression. But you can't deny that some UC members were driven away by the tone of the posts--they've said so here. I'm sure that most UC members were probably decent people. Generally, I've found that ukulele players are.

And no, I never joined. By the time I decided to join a uke group, I could register at UU easily. But I never heard of Ukulele Cosmos until (1) I read complaints about it here, and (2) the mods or mod at UC had stopped responding to new registration forms (though some old members were still posting). In other words, UC wasn't being administered anymore.

What makes you say that UC died a natural death? What do you know about it? I suspect conjecture on your part but please present your evidence. “Nobody took UC away from you”, how do you know and indeed why be so rude as to say that? Perhaps you should go away and do some self censoring

Well, this is at least one reason why it died. Read Chris:

Lots of people decided the Cosmos wasn't for them and stopped posting. Some people decided it wasn't for them, stopped posting and complained about it on here.

Graham also wrote:

You have quoted comments made in a post here but have not included a reference, that’s not the correct way of doing things and you surely should know that. You might also be accused of selective quoting, I think that that selective quoting could be sloppy and biased reporting … again something we don’t want here.

True. I correctly and precisely quoted that message without the name assigned. That was a mistake. I didn't want to bring a nasty person's wrath down upon myself. But it's too late now. It's been deleted. I've searched every word and it's gone. So sue me. The original poster apparently had second thoughts. GOOD!

As a general comment it’s my opinion that pretty much any forum that doesn’t have a mutually tolerant membership and breadth of membership is doomed; and loss of women from it is a warning sign. Moderation, whether by members (of their own posts) or moderators, is important to a forum’s health.

You are right there, Graham. If I'm ever in your neighborhood, I will buy you a pint at your favorite local. That's a promise.

 

[Graham Greenbag]

And no, I never joined. By the time I decided to join a uke group, I could register at UU easily. But I never heard of Ukulele Cosmos until (1) I read complaints about it here, and (2) the mods or mod at UC had stopped responding to new registration forms (though some old members were still posting). In other words, UC wasn't being administered anymore.

True. I correctly and precisely quoted that message without the name assigned. That was a mistake. I didn't want to bring a nasty person's wrath down upon myself. But it's too late now. It's been deleted. I've searched every word and it's gone. So sue me. The original poster apparently had second thoughts. GOOD!

You are right there, Graham. If I'm ever in your neighborhood, I will buy you a pint at your favorite local. That's a promise.

I would put it to you that if you never joined Cosmos then you could almost certainly never know what was actually said on its pages (access to read content was restricted by member name and password). As such your comments can surely only be based on second hand information, in this case it seems from vocal members here who couldn’t manage or get on in a particular other forum. Did you take note of Cosmos members like John Colter or Prof Chris too, and gain insight from some individuals who are somewhat decent folk and certainly amongst the best that this place has to offer?

It’s a real pity that you didn’t capture the contentious quote in question and a further pity that you, or anyone else, might think it a representative comment. Having the courage of your convictions (to capture the text, context and author) would have been so much better and excessively retaliatory responses can be moderated away here on UU. Whilst working in my garden, and before your earlier / initial post, I’d been thinking of you as a Lady who could put her points across with vigour and wasn’t to be messed with … and then I end up doing just that . Life can be so funny .

Did Cosmos have a natural death or was it killed off? The forum had a small but active membership and as far as I can see the site owner pulled the plug, on that basis it was killed. To my recollection there were no warming posts / open discussions with the Cosmos members, it was there one day and gone the next. Executed.

I’m pretty much ‘T Total’ but I’d be glad to spend time with you, and if over a cup of tea and a piece of cake - coffee and a donut would be just as nice - then all the better .

 

[ripock]

If this is a reference to me leaving up a typo on another thread which you corrected, I apologise and will not do it again. It was just a typo that made me laugh, I didn't mean any harm.

No that wasn't it at all.

 

[TBB]

I was a lurker on Cosmos for a long time, until I forgot my login details and there was no longer any response from admin to get them reinstated, and I could totally see the appeal. It’s maybe a bit more of a British thing (kind of ironic given that the Brits are so often portrayed as being excessively polite) but I rather liked its rough and ready, no-nonsense atmosphere.

It seems to me that as long as the content isn’t breaking any laws, a forum like Cosmos has its place. Those that like it can stay and people who find it too brash can leave. But problems will always occur when people start s!agging off the “other side”, it wasn’t unusual on there for UU to be referred to in derogatory terms, even by people who are/were members of both places, and that sometimes spilled over onto the UU boards.

This place has a very different atmosphere and I love it here, but sometimes I find it very “American” (nothing wrong with that, I like Americans and it’s a wonderful country and this IS, after all, an American website) and it makes me feel a bit like I don’t fit in. It’s not UU’s fault, it’s my problem, but I can imagine the equivalent being true for some people on UC.

The reason I never contributed to UC was because it felt so much like a group of long term friends hanging out in a bar. I can’t tell you how many times I sat with my fingers hovering over the keyboard, trying to work up the courage to join in, whilst envisaging the scene from American Werewolf in London where they walk into a pub on the moors only to be greeted by an icy silence and David Schofield’s “you made me miss!” (a line that is almost as overused in our family as “we’re gonna need a bigger boat”), and I suppose that in itself says something. A forum probably needs to be perceived as welcoming in order to have a future, at the end of the day new members are a necessity.

I’m sorry that Cosmos has gone, and particularly for those people who spent a lot of time there, if someone ever brings it back I’ll try very hard to work up the courage to join in!

 

[pondweed]

I spent a happy 15 mins looking up some videos from a US-based Cosmos user - and performer - I'd forgotten about. Seeing TBB's comments made me question why the personal response had felt so strong when I saw Cosmos was down, despite being much less of a recent user. I was certainly one who was geekily knowledge-building when starting ukulele twenty years ago and probably asking lots of questions; to me it had a mens' shed (as in the terminology that is presently used in UK for new organisations helping re-engage lost souls, rather than any necessity that it needs to be men) feel about it though which helped - fixing things and fettling instruments for the sheer sake of it; as a way of learning and communing, rather than with any economic sense. There was a feeling of blunt common sense, experience, brilliance and intelligence there. And my dumb questions still got answered - so there was also patience and kindness with those entering the fold; an aura of volunteering. There was a lot of life-observation-beyond-ukulele going on too; some raw responses.
I'm already feeling that you don't know what you've got till it's gone. Perhaps hazy memories - and on reading Dancephoto's post with a gentle smile - realising that you were part of something, however marginal that might have been, are best as it might lead into new action of some sort as a result of personal reflection that otherwise wouldn't have happened.

 

[Graham Greenbag]

This is well said. But it is a testament that life changes over time. UU was almost gone at one time, and will probably be gone at some point in time.

Regardless of the sides, people do need to enjoy what they have at the moment for it may be gone tomorrow.

^^ From a little up the thread.

I think it would do us all good to remember the above, in the immediacy and heat of the moment we forget some things and how lucky we are to have them.

 

[Corinto]

Really liked the cosmos, felt at home there, and will miss it.
Never heard the "rottweiler" nickname before, must be a UU thing.
Rather liked his knowledge and style, still have some stuff (pdf) he forwarded to me.
Rhino skin, no, never felt offended, sometimes it was just old style pub chatter, never intentional offenses, ymmv.

 

[dancephoto]

Still curious about what you could say on Cosmos about ukulele constructing, playing, and/or collecting that you can't say on UU?

Words that have been used in praise of Cosmos include "un-moderated, polarised, plain spoken, unvarnished, more straightforward, and honest."

Does that mean you could you call someone an idiot if they used different strings than you do?

Or was it something else?

 

[Mike $]

I joined the Cosmos a few years back and found the people there to be amazing and very helpful. The lack of moderation shouldn't be confused with a lack of respect for each other. If you acted respectfully, you got treated respectfully. There were disagreements, but respectful ones. There was course language, but nothing foul. But there was a goldmine of information on those pages. I read through all of the luthier's postings, which helped me a lot while I started building my own ukes. The guys on hand answered all my questions, professionally and directed me to a lot of useful information to help me out. It was like going to the local watering hole and chatting with a bunch of guys who'd known each other for years and not feeling like an outsider. I really enjoyed my experience there and will be happy, if by some miracle it returns. Warts and all. It was a great place to laugh and learn.

 

[Patty]

A forum probably needs to be perceived as welcoming in order to have a future, at the end of the day new members are a necessity.

I’m sorry that Cosmos has gone, and particularly for those people who spent a lot of time there, if someone ever brings it back I’ll try very hard to work up the courage to join in!

If UC came back, I’d certainly join. And if I didn’t feel welcome for any reason I’d leave.

 

[DuckyI]

Still curious about what you could say on Cosmos about ukulele constructing, playing, and/or collecting that you can't say on UU?

Words that have been used in praise of Cosmos include "un-moderated, polarised, plain spoken, unvarnished, more straightforward, and honest."

Does that mean you could you call someone an idiot if they used different strings than you do?

Or was it something else?

I'll bite, though I am only half convinced this is a question in good faith.

Ages ago, I remember putting up a video of me playing a Cole Porter song, and one of the very longstanding and knowledgable forum members (Uncle Rufus) gave me some feedback. In frank but constructive language, he made it clear that I was not nailing the nuances of the written melody in my vocals, and that I should go back to the sheet music to really understand what made the melody work over the chord changes. This was something that was important for me to hear at the time, and it stuck with me in my playing ever since. I think I'm a better musician for it.

Community doesn't just come in the form of good vibes and positivity, sometimes criticism and challenging people can be just as important, and UC embodied that.

 

[Patty]

I would put it to you that if you never joined Cosmos then you could almost certainly never know what was actually said on its pages

True. I know only what was said here on UU. As I also said, I could not join UC because it was not possible. UC had gone moribund.

It’s a real pity that you didn’t capture the contentious quote in question

So you’ve said. I’ll try Wayback Machine, if I can figure out how it works.

 

[Patty]

I like UC. They have little time for pomposity, hypocrisy or this fake and nonsensical "Aloha spirit". Go there and act like a "typical American" and you'll be carrying your head home in a bag.

Here you go, @Graham Greenbag. The post (quoted in its entirety) had not been removed; my searches simply didn’t turn it up. Later on in that same thread—which you can read for yourself—he is reminded of the UU rules for civilized posting, then reappears with a different handle (Kahuna Nui) and uses language I did not want to repeat.

And NO, I do NOT consider this typical of all UC members and never said so.

 

[dancephoto]

I'll bite, though I am only half convinced this is a question in good faith.

Ages ago, I remember putting up a video of me playing a Cole Porter song, and one of the very longstanding and knowledgable forum members (Uncle Rufus) gave me some feedback. In frank but constructive language, he made it clear that I was not nailing the nuances of the written melody in my vocals, and that I should go back to the sheet music to really understand what made the melody work over the chord changes. This was something that was important for me to hear at the time, and it stuck with me in my playing ever since. I think I'm a better musician for it.

Community doesn't just come in the form of good vibes and positivity, sometimes criticism and challenging people can be just as important, and UC embodied that.

Thank you. Good point. I don't remember seeing any constructive criticism of performances here on UU. The emphasis seems to be on encouragement. We all need both. The ability to continually set the bar high enough to challenge but not so high as to discourage or demoralize is the essence of good teaching. A problem encountered on forums like UU (and I imagine Cosmos) is that sometimes people can't seem to figure out when they should be more of a "teacher" and when they should be more of a "learner" on a given subject. In this instance, you chose to be the teacher and I have benefited by being the learner.

 

[ploverwing]

Thank you. Good point. I don't remember seeing any constructive criticism of performances here on UU. The emphasis seems to be on encouragement. We all need both. The ability to continually set the bar high enough to challenge but not so high as to discourage or demoralize is the essence of good teaching. A problem encountered on forums like UU (and I imagine Cosmos) is that sometimes people can't seem to figure out when they should be more of a "teacher" and when they should be more of a "learner" on a given subject. In this instance, you chose to be the teacher and I have benefited by being the learner.

Maybe there's a space for a "critique cafe" on UU? So anyone posting there KNOWS that they're posting to a space where just applause and encouragement is not enough, where the poster is requesting genuine, constructive feedback. I was a visual artist for years and learned how to perform critiques of artwork. It wasn't about whether I liked the piece or not, it was about providing feedback regarding technical skill development, like use of negative space, colour theory, composition, etc. Maybe there's room for something like that here.

 

[Joyful Uke]

TBB said:
"The reason I never contributed to UC was because it felt so much like a group of long term friends hanging out in a bar."

I joined UC but felt like I had wandered into a private party. I didn't know any of the people but they appeared to be long term friends and I wasn't part of their club. I popped in to lurk from time to time, but that feeling remained so I stopped visiting the site long ago.

That's not a fault of theirs. It's just how it was. Just as in real life, if I am a stranger in the midst of a group of friends who don't have any reason to interact with me, I leave. That's a comment on my personality, not theirs. I'm an introvert.