Exploring the Home Recording Rabbit Hole

[Bobalonia]

Seems there are thousands of options available. Back in 79, limited choices to get a good recording. Today, so many choices that get great results. And once you do, you can post in on the WWW, and millions can hear it. Kinda blows my mind when I think about it!
maybe the best advice would be, start small with something comfortable for you. Then follow your muse if you like…………….

 

[ailevin]

@UkingViking: You have more experience and a more sophisticated setup than I do in Reaper.

Most of what I have done is single track, though I have done some overdubs of a melody track over a chords track. In the two track case I have experimented with slightly different compression thresholds on each track. In either case, I leave my track gain at 0 dB so I can see what my compression threshold setting is doing relative to the original recording. At any rate, I expect that the threshold you want depends on the content of the track, how it was recorded, and what you are trying to do. It doesn't strike me like a set and forget settings. Frankly, I have seen little need for compression in my recordings so far doing strictly ukulele tracks. Maybe it is more important with voice, and perhaps it's my lack of experience. Again, I am mostly playing with it to get a feel for how it works.

 

[Mark Suszko]

Compression is not exactly the same as a limiter. Too much compression kills your dynamics and makes the sound feel "flat". But it's easy to get into the weeds playing with settings, tweaking and tweaking and never calling it "done".

 

[UkingViking]

The goal of compression is to make the quiet parts of the music louder, without clipping.

If my song goes on YouTube, I want it to be as loud as the song before and after, so people dont have to turn up their volume when they get to my song. Assuming that videos on YouTube are in general made with proper sound settings.
The first thing to do is to turn up again untill you reach highest allowable peak. For clipping 0db, for YouTube -1 db.
Then you can look at the perceived sound level of the entire track. If it is very low, there are two tools:
The compression that squeeze the volume differences between the threshold and 0db smaller. I havent quite figured out the nitty gritty details of how it works, but this way the peaks get smaller and gain can be added. Or the compressor adds it? Not sure. The compression doesnt as such make things sound better, but louder sometimes means easier to hear.
The limiter, that chops away any volume increase above the limit. Ideally I dont really want this to do much, since that eliminates dynamics. But if there is one single place in the entire track where I sing much louder than the other peaks, it might make sense to let the limiter cut that.

I must admit that I dont like the sound of too much compression on a live uke and vocal recording. It is a soundscape that needs to have a lot of dynamics. With the small amount that doesnt ruin the sound, I have usually not been able to gain many db perceived sound level. Not using compression at all could be a good idea, and sometimes I just omit it.

But I have never taken the time to immerse myself in experimenting. I have read the internet and hoped to get an answer

 

[Mark Suszko]

"...make the quiet parts of the music louder..."

This is what rubber-banding the faders is for. You may need to ride the levels thru the whole mix; you don't just set one average level and forget about it.

 

[mikelz777]

Mike: drop a couple of bucks on an extension cord for the lav mic you have, get one long enough to go from the iphone to your playing position with a little extra slack. A fifteen-footer is twelve bucks on Amazon. Wear the lav on your shirt, about even with the chest pocket, centered, with the capsule pointing downwards. This will get your voice and the uke clearly. With a long enough cable, you can run the cable up inside your shirt or over the shoulder and down inside along the button flap, secure the cable with bits of duct tape or medical bandage tape so it doesn't shift or flop around... give that a try, and report back, please.

I gave it a try and the results had kind of a cottony, muted and remote quality not caused by my shirt blocking the mic. I think the results are better with the mic in front of me pointing straight at me or slightly down and perhaps better elevated above the table rather than resting on the table edge. Perhaps I need a better quality mic?

 

[Mark Suszko]

Got a still image of how you set it up?

 

[ailevin]

Yesterday, I walked around my living room where I have been recording and listened to the sound of the room through the H6. I know that audiophiles may be horrified by my technique, but nothing about my living room is optimized for high fidelity. I have a pair of Sonos One speakers and I used Spotify tracks playing at normal listening volume which for us is not very loud. I walked around the room listening through the H6 on closed over the ear headphones. It was interesting to hear how the bass built up in the corners and traveled along the walls and ceiling (the room is carpeted and has an 8.5' high ceilings). I found a relatively large sweet spot in the middle of the room slightly biased toward the wall with more furniture. Getting into that zone only involved moving our chairs and music stand a few feet. I then did a more distant recording, again at 35" high and this time about 6 feet away from me. If was just a brief test, but I thought it sounded better, though there were plusses and minuses. On the plus side, the ukulele sounded great--more natural than the close mic version, yet more focused than the recording from 3 feet when both mic and uke were nearer a reflecting wall. On the minus side I picked up more background noise from inside the house, though that was due to more activity than usual while I was recording. This last recording sounded startlingly like sitting in the room. At one point, I was listening to it through headphones on the H6, and although I saw my wife sitting on the couch in front of me, I looked over to the kitchen to see who was putting a dish into the sink!

Now that I better know where I want to record in that room, I am going to rerecord with mic close, 3 feet away, and 6 feet away to see how they compare. I'm also going to explore the bedroom sound space, limited though it is, to see if there is a better place to record there as well.

One of the issues with rabbit holes, is that they take too much time away from playing ukulele. For that reason, I am trying very hard not to perform for the recording and instead I am just letting the recorder run during a typical 25 minute practice session.

 

[Bobalonia]

Kinda a side note……..Recording…………In the 1970s I lived in Orlando, Fl. A simple 2.5 hour drive from CriteriaStudios. The music recorded at that time? I’d say pretty much iconic. The times I have kicked myself for
A. Not knowing that was happening. I’m sure the word made it around.
B. Not finding a way to get down there and try and get involved………somehow!
imagine cleaning studios after Eagles, Bee Gees, Clapton, too many to list. And you know an encounter could happen. The Studio then WAS the home of magic.

 

[mikelz777]

Got a still image of how you set it up?

The cheapie ($2-3) lavalier mic is plugged directly into the phone, no apps, just downloaded directly to YouTube. The mic would be 7-9" from the sound hole of the uke and about 14" from my mouth. I'm just wondering how people get such clean and crisp sound from their uke with the sound volume between uke and voice pretty equal. Do some have dual mics or do they have a better mic that better captures both? It seems like the videos I make that my voice comes over louder than my uke.

 

[Mark Suszko]

I was hoping for a still frame from your recording showing how you wear the mic. It's likely to be terrible at any distance for that price, but the point of one of these is to wear it on your shirt as you play and sing, with the foam windscreen pointing down towards the uke, and the mic clipped to your shirt at about where you would attach a tie bar for a men's necktie, that is, about the third or fourth button down from the collar on your shirt. The cable, if long enough, will drape over your shoulder down to the spot, or, run it along the floor and up to your belly, then pin it at the third or fourth button of the shirt. If this picture is how you record now, no wonder it sounds wrong. Even a good lav would be challenged to work in that setup; they are meant for a distance of one foot away at most... Add the extension cable I suggested for five or so bucks, wear the mic as I described, send me a still image of that and try a recording that way ....and I think you might be surprised.

 

[Pyewacket]

@Mark Suszko

The vast majority of this entire discussion is going over my head, but to comment on your recording of "Babe, What Would You Say?" - as a listener:

Whatever the setup is, it seems to pick up the ukulele very well (or maybe that got post-processed somehow) but the voice part is kind of faint and whispy, and has a sort of a faint echo or echo-like effect, as if its being recorded down a tube or something. I can't imagine why the uke would come through so well but not the voice, but there it is. That's how it sounds to me.

Went back and looked at it again, and if your phone is in your shirt pocket there, I guess what MAY be going on is you are singing mostly away from the mic on the cell phone while the uke is closer to and probably reflecting more of its own sound in the general direction of the mic than your voice can manage from that distance and direction. So maybe an external mic would solve that, or maybe two mics if the recording app can accept dual mic inputs. Or something like that. Again - mostly over my head.

The actual video seemed grainy. If that's as a result of using a cell phone I guess I'd be looking for something better to record the video with. I know my cell phone camera tends to distort things if you don't get them right head on (ditto with video, which seems high res enough but still has that weird distortion if you aim at anything just a little out of center). I have a Pentax digital camera (its packed somewhere) that I'm pretty sure will do video to. Whenever I finally find that I guess I'd check it out, but given how MY cell phone camera records video, I'd definitely want something else to record video.

Personally I'd also rather do all processing (and I freely admit I have NO idea what that comprises) on a PC rather than a cell phone. I can often barely read what's on my cell phone screen. (Samsung S10+, not the newest, but not significantly smaller than my son's brand new S20).

I am pretty sure most Youtubers are using their cell phones and most of those seem fine, so not sure what the difference might be.

Honestly I'm a looooong way from wanting to record anything. Just FWIW. Which probably isn't much.

 

[UkingViking]

@Pyewacket

If you think Marks video look grainy, you should look at the average video on the Seasons of the Ukulele playlist, often recorded with whatever light makes us into the spot where recording is convenient.
When looking at it on my little phone screen, cant tell what kind of device recorded it, but it looks good because care has been put into the lighting.

While most casual ukulele Youtubers record on their phone, I have the impression that the professional YouTubers tend to use DSLR cameras with a bright prime lens. That does give more sharpness under less than ideal lighting. But a phone recording in good lighting will probably be more pleasant for the eye than a DSLR recording in really bad lighting.

That is really a dilemma when recording video with live playing in your home. You need and place and angle where the background is not too messy, the acoustics of the room are not too bad, where you can comfortably position yourself with the microphone close but not too intrusive in the shot.

 

[ailevin]

Last week I went to see my son who was back in town for a week or ten days before shipping out on another tour of Canada and the US. He showed me around his studio and his amazing collection of microphones. I didn’t want to deal with anything too fragile or expensive, so I borrowed a Shure M57, an XLR cable and a mic stand.

I experimented first in the living room sweet spot with just the M57 at about 8” to get levels right and I was amazed at how great it sounded through the headphones played back directly off the H6. It had better bass response than the XY condenser pair on the H6. The 57 not only capture more bass (really more like mid-bass) but it had a tighter more detailed bass response.

Then I stayed with the close mic 57 and add the H6 XY mics at 3’ and 6’. At both distances, the 57 track mixed with the XY track down 6 bB sounded just right to me. It gave a wider sound stage, some room ambiance, and awesome detail. The extra logistics of 57, stand, cable increase the hassle, but once I had set up, The H6 was just a pleasure to use for recording and reviewing the recordings. For analyzing my practice or rehearsal, just H6 would be fine, but adding the 57 is worthwhile if I want the best sound.

The next day, I set up in the bedroom. I played the game of trying to find the sweet spot other than the middle of the bed, and decided that close micing both the H6 and the 57 was probably my best option. I didn't think about plopping the H6 on the bed, but maybe that will be a future experiment. Anyway I thought this would be an interesting comparison of the two microphones in more or less the same position. As you would expect, positioning of the 57 was considerably more critical, so I positioned it first, and then put the H6 XY as close as I could and aimed them. The differences between the tracks was much more subtle that in my living room experiments. The 57 still had slightly more bass response, but the XY bass sounded much tighter when the H6 as at the same distance as the 57. Although not as much as in the living room experiments, the XY pair did increase the sound stage and gave it a sense of airiness compare to the 57. I think the 57 is in general a little more punchy. Perhaps it is just a single mic vs. a pair. I thought that mixing the two tracks at the same volume sounded about right to me. Something I forgot to mention is that in general the XY captures more room noise and the 57 captures more player and instrument noise. That wasn't surprising in the living room where the XY was more distant, but even in the bedroom where they were both close, it was true.

 

[ukudancer]

@UkingViking agreed. Most Seasonista videos are probably shot by phone (there's also phenomenal phones out there, mind you).

I sometimes shoot with a dslr, but it'll be too cumbersome if you're doing it alone. If I'm being honest, I usually opt for a GoPro so I don't have to deal with manually focusing a prime lens.

The average home musician probably won't deal with that, even some big YouTubers (ie Elise Ecklund, Daniel Thrasher, Charles Berthoud, Davie504, Bradley Hall). I'm 95% sure they shoot with a phone. They just spend more time with an NLE.

Compare that with guys like Brandon Scott and Music Is Win. Those guys are using serious gear and they edit the crap out of their videos.

I'm somewhere in the middle. I will use lots of gear (dslr, GoPros and motorized camera sliders), as well as edit but I'm also not really color correcting and masking in Premiere or AVID either.

 

[Pyewacket]

I have reread all this several times now and I'm still not grokking it. Is there something online somewhere that is a good introduction to audio recording and equipment? "Audio recording and post-processing for Dummies" kind of thing?

 

[UkingViking]

I have reread all this several times now and I'm still not grokking it. Is there something online somewhere that is a good introduction to audio recording and equipment? "Audio recording and post-processing for Dummies" kind of thing?

There are like a gazillion videos on YouTube on what you need to set up a home studio, and guides to post processing.
The catch is that they are usually targeted a mix with quite a few tracks of different instruments, with a serious take on it.
If, like many in this forum, you want to do a limited production of uke and vocal, it is hard to find a guide that just focuses on what works for that. Then you might as well post questions in the audio video sub forum regarding your specific needs.

 

[Pyewacket]

There are like a gazillion videos on YouTube on what you need to set up a home studio, and guides to post processing.
The catch is that they are usually targeted a mix with quite a few tracks of different instruments, with a serious take on it.
If, like many in this forum, you want to do a limited production of uke and vocal, it is hard to find a guide that just focuses on what works for that. Then you might as well post questions in the audio video sub forum regarding your specific needs.

Sadly I don't actually know what my "specific needs" might be. Drat. Thanks.

 

[ailevin]

I have reread all this several times now and I'm still not grokking it. Is there something online somewhere that is a good introduction to audio recording and equipment? "Audio recording and post-processing for Dummies" kind of thing?

I had the same difficulty when I first started out, it's like someone was explaining it to me in a language that I didn't speak or at least it didn't speak to me. I actually found this thread in SOTU very helpful in just getting oriented. I like the way that you asked the question, "Audio recording ... ?" Too much of what you immediately bump into is Studio recording and Home Studio recording and I think it takes you into the deep end a little too quickly. Perhaps the biggest breakthrough for me was realizing I could uncouple video and audio and put them back together later if I wanted. I was much more interested in audio.

Here is my basic understanding. Staying only with recording and assuming you want to store, process, or play your music from a computer (or other digital device), you need:

1. Microphone{s} to capture your audio
2. An interface to convert you audio (analog) into something the computer can deal with (digital)
3. A computer (or other digital device) to store your recording
4. Some SW to manage the computer side of the interface and store/process the recording

Most smart phones have all three built in and whether you record video in a photo app or record audio files in a memo app, or use some fancier app on the phone, those are the pieces of the puzzle. Most phones also have SW and an interface to play the recording back over internal speakers or a headset. Most laptops/desktops can do the same things and often have built-in cameras, microphones, speakers as well as basic built in SW to record and play files. The component in the computer that manages the interface(s) between analog audio and digital computer files is usually called the sound card.

For lots of folks, a smart phone is a great starting point and may be the end point too. When I decided I wanted better audio, I bought a cheap USB microphone. That is just a microphone that has an interface built in (it has both items 1 and 2 above). It connects to phone or computer via USB. I think I learned more about audio just fiddling around with that USB mic connected to my phone than from anything else that I did. I was just moving the mic around and moving myself around in the room, and playing with recording levels etc. and listening to the results. The USB mic was also plug and play with my PC.

Past this point it seemed like there were a lot of choices: which DAW, which audio interface, which mics and it was a bit overwhelming. I went with a portable audio recorder (Zoom H6) because it seemed to let me delay a bunch of those choices and looked convenient. It came with mics, had built in HW/SW to record, playback, mix, render, and do very simple DAW processing on up to six tracks. It could also can act as stereo USB microphone or six channel audio interface to a computer.

My biggest hurdle was the DAW. It was like dealing with the infrastructure to build the pyramids when I just wanted a bird house. I was lucky to have some expert help setting up initially. However, to actually get the hang of it I had to bite the bullet, choose a DAW (Reaper), and go through hours in tutorial videos. The Reaper site has good videos and they are organized in a reasonable way so I could pick and choose somewhat. I just turned the play speed up to 1.25 or 1.5 on the videos and plowed through what I need to get going with my own recordings. I still refer back to them if I get stuck or confused.