Another humidity question

[mlolya]

The room where I keep my ukuleles is kept at a constant 70 degrees and 45-50% humidity.
My question is if I have some ukuleles stored in hard case or gig bags in this same room, would it still important to keep a Boveda in the cases and if so, would that be the same for both hard cases and gig bags?
And… does anyone feel it’s important to humidify a cased laminated ukulele even in a uncontrolled environment?

 

[Ottertail]

I want to know too. Seems like you’ve nothing to worry about though.

 

[merlin666]

No the room is good enough and you can keep ukes out on stands for exposure to humidity . If you add more humidity then the wood may swell too much and resonance will be reduced.

 

[mlolya]

I feel pretty comfortable about the instruments in my room since my environmental conditions are the same an Aaron’s workshop and storage space at Beansprout.
I guess if those conditions are consistent then I guess it should be the same inside a case that’s in that room. I just wasn’t sure about that.
I’m also planning on keeping a new laminate ukulele (KoAlana) at my office where there is no control over temperature and humidity. Since it’s a laminate I was wondering if it’s really necessary to humidify the case.

 

[kkimura]

I would say yes to humidifying a laminate in very dry conditions. While the body will be fine, you can have problems with the bracing and fret sprout.

 

[rainbow21]

Here is what I wonder about...

So let's say room humidity is around 45 - 55 % (like at my place in the Bay Area). So you put it into a good hard case,no humidifier, which I can imagine is somewhat sealed against humidity changes. Is the wood in equilibrium with the air in the case, or does it suck up the available humidity if kept enclosed for a few months and in danger of cracking? If I put a Boveda pack in, would it stay hydrated for months or wood moisture actually migrate slowly to the wood because it is dryer than the 45%?

If it is supposed to be okay to leave the case closed, then why, with a good case, in drier climates, does it need renewing every week or so? Is the assumption that leakage does not occur incorrect? Or is the wood not at 45% and will keep "drinking" until it gets there?

Trying to understand a little better (I just opened each of my cases for a few days at 50% room humidity). I don't worry about my hanging ukuleles, just the ones that sit in the cases.

 

[mlolya]

Here is what I wonder about...

So let's say room humidity is around 45 - 55 % (like at my place in the Bay Area). So you put it into a good hard case,no humidifier, which I can imagine is somewhat sealed against humidity changes. Is the wood in equilibrium with the air in the case, or does it suck up the available humidity if kept enclosed for a few months and in danger of cracking? If I put a Boveda pack in, would it stay hydrated for months or wood moisture actually migrate slowly to the wood because it is dryer than the 45%?

If it is supposed to be okay to leave the case closed, then why, with a good case, in drier climates, does it need renewing every week or so? Is the assumption that leakage does not occur incorrect? Or is the wood not at 45% and will keep "drinking" until it gets there?

Trying to understand a little better (I just opened each of my cases for a few days at 50% room humidity). I don't worry about my hanging ukuleles, just the ones that sit in the cases.

Exactly what I was wondering. Does the environment inside a sealed hard case change on its own without regard to the environment outside of it? I think it would be less significant in a gig bag since they don’t seem to be as ‘sealed’ as a hard case. I would guess that the ukulele could actually pull some humidity through the zipper and the fabric. I guess it’s best to just keep a humidifier in a hard case, just in case.

 

[merlin666]

The climate in case is not different from room unless you add a source of moisture or a sink such as a desiccant pouch. Most cases are not very airtight anyway.

 

[TerryM]

↑↑ Yes ↑↑ I'm in the Bay Area (-ish) too and have hygrometers in some of my cases. Those consistently read very close to the ambient in-room humidity. Some of the cases are opened frequently, but a couple have stayed closed for months and still track ambient humidity.

 

[Poul Hansen]

The cases receive room humidity just by water molecules movement/diffusion but also when relative pressure changes, which it does all the time. This will equalize the content although the woods absorption is slower.

I have constantly a hygrometer inside a fully solid small guitar and ambient changes take 24-36 hours for it to manifest inside the guitar, which I believe is also the humidity of the wood

 

[Cornerstone]

No need extra humidity control in the cases as long as the humidity in the room is under control.

 

[kkimura]

Case humidifiers can be handy if you are traveling from a humidity controlled room to another location where the humidity is not controlled as well. Like to a gig or ukulele club meeting.

 

[raoliveri]

Ok here's my scenario...my room is about 45% +/- my hard case ukes are at 47-49% with Bevedas in them....My pineapple KOA has a Beveda in a gig bag and is at 27% which tells me to get rid of the gig bag...why is that if the room is at 45%?

 

[doctorapatite]

Putting on my scientist hat . . . as someone who measures water vapor for NASA for a living: From the perspective of gas transport, hard cases are not really "sealed", they are barely closed, even when they are closed. All you are trying to do when you put a humidifier in with a uke in a case is raise the humidity in the local environment for as long as you can—but it's always going to be leaky and therefore temporary. If you are having trouble maintaining that humidity, then either humidify the air outside the case or put up a second vapor barrier (put your case in a plastic bin or a large ziplock bag—the kind for storing clothes).

But I suspect it is probably better that the seal on your case isnt perfect, because you don't want the conditions to be ideal for mildew to form. Better to have to replenish the water than to ruin an instrument. If the frequency of replenishment bothers you, follow the advice given about using a larger container+sponge as a reservoir. Again, if it wont fit inside the case, then you need secondary containment.

It is by the way technically possible for the wood to be so dry that it acts as a "getter" or dessicant and removes water from the air more than it leaks from the outside (same is true of a case). But in general, over long periods of time, the effectively infinite mass of the air is always going to win. A case left open should come into equilibrium with the air fairly quickly, I'd guess on a timescale of a few weeks at most, but that's a pretty uneducated guess. No matter what, it won't keep drinking the water from the air forever, even if it seems like that's what it is doing.

 

[ukeclass]

Ok here's my scenario...my room is about 45% +/- my hard case ukes are at 47-49% with Bevedas in them....My pineapple KOA has a Beveda in a gig bag and is at 27% which tells me to get rid of the gig bag...why is that if the room is at 45%?

I didn't realize that your in home RH was that high. If it stays that high, I would assume that your gig bag will eventually acclimate to that RH humidity but if you take it away for a day or two, that will likely reset.

 

[kissing]

Just going to be that guy.
If the conditions are moderate (i.e. you're not based in a desert or arctic conditions), then is a humidifier even needed?

The humidity of my room fluctuates 45-50% and is generally room temperature (20 Degrees Celsius plus or minus 10 degrees).
I've never felt the need to humidify and no ukes have ever gone bad in the decades I've collected them, including Hawaiian made Koa ones.
The only situation I would use humidifiers and keep them in a humidified case is if I was to move to some desert or arctic area long term.

Using humidifiers on Laminate ukuleles is like keeping cigarettes in a cigar humidor (i.e. mostly pointless).

 

[doctorapatite]

Just going to be that guy.
If the conditions are moderate (i.e. you're not based in a desert or arctic conditions), then is a humidifier even needed?

Yes, for at least one reason: When you make a warranty repair request of [Fancy Brand], what's a question they might ask you?

"Did you use a humidifier?"

I'd rather be able to answer yes, as opposed to having to argue that my climate didnt make it necessary.

 

[Gary52]

If the conditions are moderate (i.e. you're not based in a desert or arctic conditions), then is a humidifier even needed?

I live on an island north of Seattle, where the relative humidity in the house is 50-55% except on a few rare days. We even have a dehumidifier in our bedroom. I've found no need to humidify ukes on any but those rare days, and have never had a problem in 10+ years of keeping solid wood instruments on stands and wall hangers.

 

[ukeclass]

Just going to be that guy.
If the conditions are moderate (i.e. you're not based in a desert or arctic conditions), then is a humidifier even needed?

The humidity of my room fluctuates 45-50% and is generally room temperature (20 Degrees Celsius plus or minus 10 degrees).
I've never felt the need to humidify and no ukes have ever gone bad in the decades I've collected them, including Hawaiian made Koa ones.
The only situation I would use humidifiers and keep them in a humidified case is if I was to move to some desert or arctic area long term.

Using humidifiers on Laminate ukuleles is like keeping cigarettes in a cigar humidor (i.e. mostly pointless).

For me, humidification is very necessary. Parts of the year are fine, but during the winter the humidity in my office drops to staggering levels. (This is due to the fact I have an air handler in my office that just sucks up all of the humidity in the room, leaving it around 20% RH) Now I do know that humidity is up right now in my area due to weather, but I was easily able to raise it from 37% to 46% in the time I was at school today. Any improvement in my office is improvement and helps the boveda in the case and let it not work so hard.

 

[Ottertail]

@ukeclass I like your office!!!

I’ve lived in Florida all my life, and I hate humidity. There’s no possibility that I would intentionally raise the humidity in my home. I like it in the 30s. So, humidification in the case is a maintenance annoyance, but worth not having to live and sleep in 50% humidity!