New tuners for a Kamaka

[mlolya]

So I finally got my first Kamaka a coupe of weeks ago. Beautiful HF-2. One of my only two concerts.
I thought it was wonderful in the simplicity and fine workmanship of its design.
And it sounds devine, when it’s in tune!! And that’s where things began to sour a bit. The friction tuners that were used on the concert in 2011, when this one was made, were the same old German friction tuners they’d been using for years.
I thought they were awful. The slightest adjustment would send the tuning way off and it was back and forth over and over again.

I started to not want to bother playing it. So sell it or change the tuners. The newer concerts have Gotoh UPT geared tuners so I started looking.
First question was long or standard. Measuring the head stock didn’t help much because it sort of fell between the two. I finally decided to buy the standard UPT.
Now to get them on the Kamaka. Luthier or me? Checked out prices, made calls, watched videos.
Finally decided to do it myself. (With MUCH hesitation)
The video by Joel on The Ukulele Site is priceless!
It is by far the best thing I’ve seen out there. If you do it exactly as he instructs you’ll be fine.
I went with his suggested use of a reamer to enlarge the tuner holes. Bought one of the StewMac peg hole reamers. I was now up to about $200 with the reamer and the tuners.


So, time to take a very sharp tool to a very expensive instrument.
Old tuners came off easier than expected. The reamer cut smoothly and very easily. (Worth the high price) Used an awl to enlarge the rotation pin holes. Slipped in the new tuners everything done in about 20 minutes or less. (Of course nothing is that easy. Discovered that the one wrench I didn’t have was the one that fit the nuts on the tuners that tighten them down. Quick trip to the hardware store to get a 10 mm crescent wrench.)
All in all I was amazed at how quickly and easily it was accomplished!

Decided to try the black buttons. I think they look pretty cool.

Now the next big question. Which strings?

 

[merlin666]

With a call to Kamaka you could have got the UPT replacements they use in current ukes. I think that the friction tuners were used until 2000, so it's interesting to see them on a fairly new uke.

 

[mlolya]

With a call to Kamaka you could have got the UPT replacements they use in current ukes. I think that the friction tuners were used until 2000, so it's interesting to see them on a fairly new uke.

That’s interesting. I was a little surprised that the Schaller tuners were on a 2011 instrument. Could someone have replaced the UPTs with the old friction tuners? Or was Kamaka still putting them on that late?

 

[Pissodes]

That’s interesting. I was a little surprised that the Schaller tuners were on a 2011 instrument. Could someone have replaced the UPTs with the old friction tuners? Or was Kamaka still putting them on that late?

I thought those friction tuners were used until 2017 or 2018 there abouts. Did it take UPT or UPLT?

 

[mlolya]

I thought those friction tuners were used until 2017 or 2018 there abouts. Did it take UPT or UPLT?

The standard UPT worked fine. Nice low profile. Plenty of room for wraps.

 

[Quad57]

I think that the friction tuners were used until 2000, so it's interesting to see them on a fairly new uke.

They were clearly used long after that. They were also on my 2011 Kamaka HF-1 soprano. I don't think they're Scahllers, though, but Grover Champion Deluxe. I agree, they're dreadful! As Mylolya says, they constantly have to be re-tightened, to the point of damaging the finish on the peghead, and still won't stay in tune. They're also heavy (about 2.5 ounces), and ugly to boot. I went the same route and swapped them out for Gotoh UPT's. Big improvement!

Just had a look online. The Schallers and Grover Deluxes look essentially alike.

 

[DJ Mango]

So I finally got my first Kamaka a coupe of weeks ago. Beautiful HF-2. One of my only two concerts.
I thought it was wonderful in the simplicity and fine workmanship of its design.
And it sounds devine, when it’s in tune!! And that’s where things began to sour a bit. The friction tuners that were used on the concert in 2011, when this one was made, were the same old German friction tuners they’d been using for years.
I thought they were awful. The slightest adjustment would send the tuning way off and it was back and forth over and over again.
View attachment 169154
I started to not want to bother playing it. So sell it or change the tuners. The newer concerts have Gotoh UPT geared tuners so I started looking.
First question was long or standard. Measuring the head stock didn’t help much because it sort of fell between the two. I finally decided to buy the standard UPT.
Now to get them on the Kamaka. Luthier or me? Checked out prices, made calls, watched videos.
Finally decided to do it myself. (With MUCH hesitation)
The video by Joel on The Ukulele Site is priceless!
It is by far the best thing I’ve seen out there. If you do it exactly as he instructs you’ll be fine.
I went with his suggested use of a reamer to enlarge the tuner holes. Bought one of the StewMac peg hole reamers. I was now up to about $200 with the reamer and the tuners.

View attachment 169155View attachment 169156
So, time to take a very sharp tool to a very expensive instrument.
Old tuners came off easier than expected. The reamer cut smoothly and very easily. (Worth the high price) Used an awl to enlarge the rotation pin holes. Slipped in the new tuners everything done in about 20 minutes or less. (Of course nothing is that easy. Discovered that the one wrench I didn’t have was the one that fit the nuts on the tuners that tighten them down. Quick trip to the hardware store to get a 10 mm crescent wrench.)
All in all I was amazed at how quickly and easily it was accomplished!
View attachment 169157View attachment 169158
Decided to try the black buttons. I think they look pretty cool.

Now the next big question. Which strings?

Which strings are you considering ?
What type of music do you play ?

 

[mlolya]

Which strings are you considering ?
What type of music do you play ?

Well, I’m a pretty new player so I’m still searching for ‘my’ type of music. I tend to lean more towards warm and mellow and so I play mostly low G tenors.
But I wanted this to be more classical Kamaka ‘Hawaiian’, but not too bright.
I have a set of each of these that I was choosing between.

Aquila Sugar
Pepe Romero Lavas
Uke Logic low tension pinks

All high G

 

[DJ Mango]

Well, I’m a pretty new player so I’m still searching for ‘my’ type of music. I tend to lean more towards warm and mellow and so I play mostly low G tenors.
But I wanted this to be more classical Kamaka ‘Hawaiian’, but not too bright.
I have a set of each of these that I was choosing between.

Aquila Sugar
Pepe Romero Lavas
Uke Logic low tension pinks

All high G

Why not just go with the Kamaka stock black nylon ?
Or the D'Addario clear nylon EJ65C

 

[merlin666]

They were clearly used long after that. They were also on my 2011 Kamaka HF-1 soprano. I don't think they're Scahllers, though, but Grover Champion Deluxe. I agree, they're dreadful! As Mylolya says, they constantly have to be re-tightened, to the point of damaging the finish on the peghead, and still won't stay in tune. They're also heavy (about 2.5 ounces), and ugly to boot. I went the same route and swapped them out for Gotoh UPT's. Big improvement!

Just had a look online. The Schallers and Grover Deluxes look essentially alike.

I was at factory tour a couple of weeks ago and they had a board there where tuners from different times were mounted with the years so when a repair comes in they could easily identify the vintage from tuners used. That went up to 2000 with the friction tuners. Maybe after that they started with serial numbers and didn't need tuners for ID any more?

 

[mlolya]

Why not just go with the Kamaka stock black nylon ?
Or the D'Addario clear nylon EJ65C

I put on the Uke Logics. But I’m going to order some Kamakas. The ULs sound pretty good so far, but I love to try different strings.

 

[ukeclass]

Heads up for any interested parties…the black UPTs with the MOP looking buttons found on Kamaka sopranos and concerts are exclusive to Kamaka. So if you want an older instrument to better match newer instruments, you can order a set from Kamaka for $90 + shipping.

 

[Oldscruggsfan]

No experience with Romero or UL but a set of graphite Martin M605 (reentrant) has halted my longstanding loyalty to Fremont Blackline. The M605s are superb and I like the graphite color.

 

[ailevin]

I put on the Uke Logics. But I’m going to order some Kamakas. The ULs sound pretty good so far, but I love to try different strings.

First of all, I salute your courage and success in doing it yourself. I agree that having the right tools makes a big difference, but I still would have wanted Joel holding my hand over the phone when I cut the first hole. The crazy thing is, Joel would have probably done it! He has been terrifically helpful with not only instrument choices, but setup and strings too.

Obviously strings are very much a personal choice, and I've enjoyed switching around. While strings play differently and change the sound of the instrument somewhat, a Kamaka has the Kamaka sound whether it has the stock nylon strings or a flourocarbon set. I jumped on the flourocarbon band wagon very early, because I was drawn to clarity of tone and transparency, but I kind of regret not giving nylon strings a chance. A few months back, I went to a local shop specifically to try some instruments with nylon strings, and see what I thought. I played a Kamaka concert, which sounded terrific with the stock nylon strings. I wasn't doing an A/B comparison like TUS did with a bunch of strings, but nylon strings had a very different, less edgy attack, and they definitely brought out more of the mid-range harmonics that I identify with the very woody Kamaka shimmer. It is hard to describe without putting in value judgements, but I'd call flourocarbon either clear/transparent or edgier/harsher, and the nylon mellow/rich or fuzzier/muddier. I know it is possible to get a bad string (been there done that) but in order of importance the sound is influenced by the player, the instrument, and then the strings.