New Pono Nui Big Baritone low GCEA tuning issues

The nut is to establish one end of the scale (vibrating string length) and to guide the individual strings to their tuning peg. Saddles are sometimes formed differently per string to compensate for intonation. The forming can be a knife-like edge. Your nut slots should not have to be shaped so that the strings contact the full width.
 
Hi Mindfly

Welcome to the forum.

I had a Pono Nui. Liked it a lot. It didn’t suit my needs so went back after a week.

Over the last three years I’ve been re-stringing a bunch of instruments to irregular tunings.

Yes you can achieve GCEA tuning on a 23” scale Nui.



This isn’t a primary reason for broken strings. Pono is actually correct in having the string contact the fret side edge of the nut to ensure accurate string length to each fret.




Yes, trying to tune the D3 G3 B4 E4 strings up to G3 C4 E4 A5 will over stretch them to the breakage point.

Using strings that are too thick will stress the soundboard before the strings can get up to tune. Please loosen them before be they cause damage.



Solutions:

A. Contact these folks by email or phone asking about custom 23” scale GCEA sets. Be sure to mention 23” scale.




B. Meanwhile, here is my home brew approach:
- Notice that the G3, C4/B4, E4 strings (mentioned above) are the same for DGBE and GCEA
- This means you can start with a DGBE set from your local music store (see notes below)
- Remove the D string from slot 4; it won’t be used.
- Move the G string from slot 3 to slot 4, move the B string to slot 3 and tune it to C, move the E to slot 2.
- Buy a string for the A in slot 1. To complete a fluorocarbon string set a good gauge would be approx 0.50mm or 0.020” more or less as available. This is about the same as the skinny string for soprano or concert. My understanding is that 0.52mm, 0.47mm, 0.023”, 0.021” are typically sizes offered by string set companies for ukuleles and classical guitars. Perhaps start on the thinner side if availabile, switch to thicker if more tension is needed.
- Later if you decide to continue with partial DGBE sets look into getting a $15 25yard spool of approx 0.50mm fluorocarbon fishing leader line at the fishing tackle store to make A strings. Depending on specs it will be strength rated 25lb or 30lb - the important thing is the gauge not the strength. (I have no experience with nylon/Nylgut gauges or feasibility but follow the same principles).
- Note1: For DGBE sets I’d begin with sets using thinner gauges. Companies use approx the same specs 1.05mm, 0.91mm, 0.74mm, 0.62mm.
- Note2: My NUI came with a DGBE Nylgut set with two wound strings that felt good at 23”. I have no suggestions about Nylgut or nylon because all my playing has been fluorocarbon.
- Note3: A set of DGBE Living Waters all fluorocarbon played well. Felt a stiff at first but okay after a few minutes.
- Note4: I’d absolutely disregard any advise about using the four skinny strings from a classical guitar set for 23” GCEA. It may be workable for a 20” scale baritone ukulele but will be too tight for a 23” NUI.


Best regards.
All of this detail is very much appreciated. Thank you.

I have abandoned the idea of using GCEA tuning after breaking 5 strings. Lowering the octave doesn't work, the strings are too loose. I'm just going to go with the standard baritone tuning - DGBE. But, I have broken the D and E string trying to set my Nui up with standard baritone uke strings.

Wouldn't a set of classical guitar strings work? I'm a little puzzled why no one has suggested what seems like the simplest solution so I'm guessing there is something I'm missing.

I have emailed Pono to find out what strings they recommend. I'll post their answer here so anyone else with a Pono Nui will be able to find strings for theirs.
 
Wouldn't a set of classical guitar strings work? I'm a little puzzled why no one has suggested what seems like the simplest solution so I'm guessing there is something I'm missing.
Actually, I'm pretty sure Jim did:
If you want G2 C3 E3 A3 on 23" scale, i would think you'd want the bottom 4 strings from a classical guitar set. You might need to go with a low tension set. I have a 19" scale guilele in G2 C3 F3 Bb3 D4 G4 with a normal tension set and I'd call it low-to-medium tension overall.

I mean, he had done so to address your initial query about GCEA tuning, but same same for DGBE tuning, right?
This has been suggested I'll just add my vote in favour: I recently purchased LaBella Requinto strings for my Requinto guitar (just over 22" scale length) tuned A-A rather than E-E, I would think that would work for your Baritone to tune GCEA? But... it sounds like you might have other things going on there. Just thought I'd add my $0.02 of very noob input :)
And I had too - I'd suggested Requinto strings, because they're tuned exactly like my GCEA ukulele, and should match your scale length for your baritone. But you can also get E-E Requinto strings to match your DGBE tuning.

It sounds like you're experiencing an exceptional amount of frustration over this; I cannot believe how many strings have broken for you, that is really annoying. I hope that you find some help from Pono. Good luck!
 
Actually, I'm pretty sure Jim did:


I mean, he had done so to address your initial query about GCEA tuning, but same same for DGBE tuning, right?

And I had too - I'd suggested Requinto strings, because they're tuned exactly like my GCEA ukulele, and should match your scale length for your baritone. But you can also get E-E Requinto strings to match your DGBE tuning.

It sounds like you're experiencing an exceptional amount of frustration over this; I cannot believe how many strings have broken for you, that is really annoying. I hope that you find some help from Pono. Good luck!
Yes he did for GCEA tuning. But, being pretty ignorant, it wasn't clear to me if that applied to the DGBE tuning.

And yeah, pretty frustrating. I have a baritone Pono that I replaced with baritone gCEA strings and I love it. I had no idea I was in the deep end of the pool when I did the same to this Pono Nui. Still, I'm learning a lot of things I didn't know about strings and tuning from you guys so I think net gain in the end.

I appreciate everyone's patience. Once you are experienced, a lot of this seems intuitively obvious. But, for people like me, it's not at all. For example, I have no idea what this nomenclature means: "G2 C3 E3 A3". I see the GCEA mingled in there but I have no idea what the numbers mean.
 
Sorry for the confusion. In a nutshell, if you want low GCEA, you want to use the lowest 4 strings from a classical guitar set. If you want DGBE, you want to use the middle 4 strings from the set. In either case, you may need a low tension set to get up to pitch.

Another option for DGBE is to use the highest 4 strings from a set. In this case, you might find the tension from a normal set to be low, in which case you may need to go with a high tension set.

The bottom line is that you have to match the gauge of the strings to your desired pitch and scale length. With the Nui being such an odd size, this can be a challenge.
 
Yes he did for GCEA tuning. But, being pretty ignorant, it wasn't clear to me if that applied to the DGBE tuning.

And yeah, pretty frustrating. I have a baritone Pono that I replaced with baritone gCEA strings and I love it. I had no idea I was in the deep end of the pool when I did the same to this Pono Nui. Still, I'm learning a lot of things I didn't know about strings and tuning from you guys so I think net gain in the end.

I appreciate everyone's patience. Once you are experienced, a lot of this seems intuitively obvious. But, for people like me, it's not at all. For example, I have no idea what this nomenclature means: "G2 C3 E3 A3". I see the GCEA mingled in there but I have no idea what the numbers mean.
Fair enough, I'm new to ukulele, so I get it. I have at least a little bit of stringed instrument experience that helps a bit with the tuning stuff. I didn't know about the "G2 C3 E3 A3" thing either, it's from scientific pitch notation. This is pretty important; saying a string is tuned to C isn't particularly useful: is it "middle C" like on the piano, an octave above that, an octave below that...? If you're tuning your instrument and you don't have the right pitch, you can break a string (gee, you have no idea what that's like). My clip on tuner just says what note I'm working on; my tuner app actually gives me the scientific pitch notation too, which helped me enormously with tuning my Requinto: I knew I had the tuning "right" as in I was in the right key, but I had the wrong pitch (octave too low).

I am truly sorry that you're having such an incredibly frustrating time with this. I'd be in tears, in your place.

ETA - I think though that the standard linear tuning for a ukulele using that scientific pitch notation would be "G3 C4 E4 A4" based on this (middle C is C4, in cyan):

1662914465438.png

but I could be wrong... I'm sure it's on the forum here somewhere...

OK I'm looking at my Requinto strings set and it says for A2, D3, G3, C3, E4, A4, and I know that the G - A are the same as the ukulele, so I guess it's a different system than I linked to on Wikipedia? Because I know that the C on a ukulele is middle C on the piano (based on standard notation), and the G (for linear tuning) is the G below middle C, the E and A are those above middle C, yet the link from Wikipedia calls that C "4" not "3".
 
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That’s interesting. You mentioned “bridge” for correcting intonation issues but did you mean “nut”? so is the nut for correcting intonation issues, distributing stress to make the bend to the peg, or both?
I did not mean nut. I’ve not heard of compensating a nut, but I suppose the inclined slots you describe are a form of that. They provide a precise location for the beginning of the measure of the scale length.
I did mean to say saddle instead of bridge. Sorry for the confusion. In this picture of a compensated saddle you can see the knife edges—which are solutions, not problems.

1662914252432.jpeg
 
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Many people find that they are comfortable fretting a concert, but that they are uncomfortable fretting a tenor. In other words, they have to press harder to fret a tenor, and they perceive that the tenor strings are at a higher tension. There’s actually a better word for this than tension, but the word tension is commonly used.

Also common is the recommendation that they replace the strings on their tenor with strings which are packaged as concert strings. This results in strings “with lower tension”.

in your case, baritone strings on a Baritone Nui (long-neck baritone?) should have the same effect. They should feel like “low tension strings”. That they snap makes me suspect that something else is at play. Hence my recommendation that you release the tension between nut and peg, or your luthier’s suggestion that the nut is at fault (which I doubt), or the suggestion that you lubricate the nut with graphite, or that you check for a sharp hole edge on the peg, or that you search for even lower tension strings.
 
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As the OP found out a 23” length scale is just too long for standard GCEA tuning. Most baritone’s have a scale length of around 20”, 3 extra inches is a big deal and increases tension a lot.
Enjoy it strung at DGBE which the instrument was designed and built for. You can always contact HMS for string recommendations for that instrument in DGBE tuning.
I have a LFDM baritone with 22-1/2” scale length tuned DGBE. Stock strings that work well are Martin M630 (bright sound) D’Addario Titanium (warm sound). I also use many different types of classical guitar strings that I buy as singles from Strings by Mail
 
The Lucier tried stringing it with normal baritone strings and tuning an octave lower but the tension was too tight at the right octave and way too loose at the lower octave.
Baritone strings are designed for a shorter scale than 23 inches. I'd recommend finding a set of strings actually designed for a longer scale than baritone scale, like classical guitar strings. I'm surprised your luthier didn't try using strings from a guitar set. Even if you still have issues with the nut, using guitar strings would seem to eliminate the tension issue caused by trying to adapt 21 inch strings to a 23 inch scale.
 
Fair enough, I'm new to ukulele, so I get it. I have at least a little bit of stringed instrument experience that helps a bit with the tuning stuff. I didn't know about the "G2 C3 E3 A3" thing either, it's from scientific pitch notation. This is pretty important; saying a string is tuned to C isn't particularly useful: is it "middle C" like on the piano, an octave above that, an octave below that...? If you're tuning your instrument and you don't have the right pitch, you can break a string (gee, you have no idea what that's like). My clip on tuner just says what note I'm working on; my tuner app actually gives me the scientific pitch notation too, which helped me enormously with tuning my Requinto: I knew I had the tuning "right" as in I was in the right key, but I had the wrong pitch (octave too low).

I am truly sorry that you're having such an incredibly frustrating time with this. I'd be in tears, in your place.

ETA - I think though that the standard linear tuning for a ukulele using that scientific pitch notation would be "G3 C4 E4 A4" based on this (middle C is C4, in cyan):

View attachment 143503

but I could be wrong... I'm sure it's on the forum here somewhere...

OK I'm looking at my Requinto strings set and it says for A2, D3, G3, C3, E4, A4, and I know that the G - A are the same as the ukulele, so I guess it's a different system than I linked to on Wikipedia? Because I know that the C on a ukulele is middle C on the piano (based on standard notation), and the G (for linear tuning) is the G below middle C, the E and A are those above middle C, yet the link from Wikipedia calls that C "4" not "3".
Thanks for explaining this to me - now I get it.
 
As the OP found out a 23” length scale is just too long for standard GCEA tuning. Most baritone’s have a scale length of around 20”, 3 extra inches is a big deal and increases tension a lot.
Enjoy it strung at DGBE which the instrument was designed and built for. You can always contact HMS for string recommendations for that instrument in DGBE tuning.
I have a LFDM baritone with 22-1/2” scale length tuned DGBE. Stock strings that work well are Martin M630 (bright sound) D’Addario Titanium (warm sound). I also use many different types of classical guitar strings that I buy as singles from Strings by Mail
I'm guessing the Koolau Alohi Nui Baritone Strings are designed for the Pono Nui and that may be what they had it strung with. I base that on a mention in one of the Pono Nui promo vids I watched and indirect evidence - The Ukulele Site (TUS) is out of both the strings and Pono Nui's. However, still no word from either Pono or TUS.

Thanks for the string recommendations. I considered the Martin strings but couldn't find anything that indicated how long they were. The "Titanium" part made me cautious because I wondered if they were for a steel string instrument.
 
I did not mean nut. I’ve not heard of compensating a nut, but I suppose the inclined slots you describe are a form of that. They provide a precise location for the beginning of the measure of the scale length.
I did mean to say saddle instead of bridge. Sorry for the confusion. In this picture of a compensated saddle you can see the knife edges—which are solutions, not problems.

View attachment 143502
Pic speaks a 1000 words - thanks!
 
Fair enough, I'm new to ukulele, so I get it. I have at least a little bit of stringed instrument experience that helps a bit with the tuning stuff. I didn't know about the "G2 C3 E3 A3" thing either, it's from scientific pitch notation. This is pretty important; saying a string is tuned to C isn't particularly useful: is it "middle C" like on the piano, an octave above that, an octave below that...? If you're tuning your instrument and you don't have the right pitch, you can break a string (gee, you have no idea what that's like). My clip on tuner just says what note I'm working on; my tuner app actually gives me the scientific pitch notation too, which helped me enormously with tuning my Requinto: I knew I had the tuning "right" as in I was in the right key, but I had the wrong pitch (octave too low).

I am truly sorry that you're having such an incredibly frustrating time with this. I'd be in tears, in your place.

ETA - I think though that the standard linear tuning for a ukulele using that scientific pitch notation would be "G3 C4 E4 A4" based on this (middle C is C4, in cyan):

View attachment 143503

but I could be wrong... I'm sure it's on the forum here somewhere...

OK I'm looking at my Requinto strings set and it says for A2, D3, G3, C3, E4, A4, and I know that the G - A are the same as the ukulele, so I guess it's a different system than I linked to on Wikipedia? Because I know that the C on a ukulele is middle C on the piano (based on standard notation), and the G (for linear tuning) is the G below middle C, the E and A are those above middle C, yet the link from Wikipedia calls that C "4" not "3".
Ah, this helps a lot. Now it makes sense to me. Thanks!
 
Pono got back to me... recommended strings are: Daddario EJ88B Nyltech baritone strings

Recommendations from this thread include:
  • D'Addario Pro Arte' EJ45 Normal Tension classical guitar strings
  • Martin 41Y18M630 Fluorocarbon Baritone Ukulele strings
  • Koolau Alohi Nui Baritone Strings - Kalei & Corey
Thanks to everyone who gave me the information I needed to narrow down string alternatives so I can experiment without damaging my uke or continue breaking strings. I have learned quite a bit that I didn't know about strings and tuning, thanks to the experienced players who took their time to patiently share their knowledge with me. Very cool!
 
I'm guessing the Koolau Alohi Nui Baritone Strings are designed for the Pono Nui and that may be what they had it strung with. I base that on a mention in one of the Pono Nui promo vids I watched and indirect evidence - The Ukulele Site (TUS) is out of both the strings and Pono Nui's. However, still no word from either Pono or TUS.

Thanks for the string recommendations. I considered the Martin strings but couldn't find anything that indicated how long they were. The "Titanium" part made me cautious because I wondered if they were for a steel string instrument.

The D’Addario Titanium are a monofilament string, that’s between florocarbon and nylon in diameter and stiffness, think fishing line. They are the baritone set and definitely not steel, although with that name I can see why you would think so. These are long enough for your scale length, I have used them on my 22-1/2” baritone

Check Strings by Mail for availability of the ones Pono recommended and the Titaniums.
 
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