I have a problem with compensated saddles (Kiwaya / Famous)

[rileyismycopilot]

Hello gang,

Now that I'm thinking of it, all my ukes with compensated saddles have a less than stellar intonation.
The worst ones are the Kiwayas / Famous that I've had. My current Famous FS-6 is a beast of a uke, but it doesn't sound right when I play a C chord in the G shape.
Compensation on this uke is quite extreme (typical Kiwaya KS-1 / KS-5 black plastic saddle with C and E slots pushed way back).
I also have a Mahalo LTD 2 that has a compensated saddle (although less extreme), and... same thing, only not quite as bad as the Famous FS-6.

On the other hand, my vintage Martin Style 0 and Bruko with straight plain jane saddles are dead on, all the way down to the 12th fret.

Any of you feel the same with compensated saddles doing actually the opposite of what thery're supposed to do?

PS. I'm about to change the saddle to a straight one on the Famous FS-6. I think CF Martin did it right the first time and there's no need to fuss with the design.

 

[ploverwing]

Huh, that is super interesting! I haven't got to that point of paying super close attention to intonation very far up the neck on my Famous FS-5, I will have to go look at that more carefully. I do have a plain saddle on my new Ohana SK-50WG, and its intonation wasn't amazing initially, but with a different set of strings, it seems better. Thank you for this, I will check it out!

 

[Rakelele]

Interested in how this turns out. I would suspect that a saddle can technically only be compensated to a specific set of strings, so changing the string set might throw intonation off quite a bit. I also suspect that some companies use compensated saddles without really thinking about what that does exactly. Years ago, I started a discussion here that compensation on Kanilea's saddles makes no logical sense to me, and no one ever came up with a satisfying answer.

 

[Joe Strummer]

Works great on the current Martin ukes.

 

[70sSanO]

Probably the first step is to figure out how much the intonation is off for each string.

Basic rule is shortening the scale length is sharper and lengthening it is flatter.

John

 

[Ziret]

Is it possible it got returned to the bridge backward? Shouldn’t make much difference on G and A, but possibly C and E. I’ve had a few kiwaya KTX-? and two KS-5, no problems. But I agree with you in principle, flat ones can easily be as good.

 

[TBB]

Is it possible it got returned to the bridge backward? Shouldn’t make much difference on G and A, but possibly C and E. I’ve had a few kiwaya KTX-? and two KS-5, no problems. But I agree with you in principle, flat ones can easily be as good.

I was wondering this. I’ve got a Kiwaya KTS7 and a Takumi TS-3K both with compensated saddles and their intonation is freakishly good.

 

[rileyismycopilot]

Is it possible it got returned to the bridge backward?

Nope, saddles are in the correct position with the thicker strings having the longer scale.

 

[Dohle]

How's the action at the nut? No amount of compensation will help if the action isn't low enough at the nut. Of course the action at the 12th fret is also a major factor. Is it noticeably greater than the Martin or Bruko?

Also, I would definitely try different strings before messing with the saddle if you haven't already. I've never encountered a Kiwaya with a severe intonation issue and I've played several.

 

[Doug W]

I have compensated the saddles on several of my ukes. Now I never use different string sets, because the intonation is off considerably with different gauges.

 

[Pirate Jim]

I had this issue on a tenor uke once. I replaced the compensated saddle with a straight one and it sorted it out. It's a cheap and quick thing to try, you've not lost much if it doesn't work.

 

[pondweed]

Hello gang,

Now that I'm thinking of it, all my ukes with compensated saddles have a less than stellar intonation.
The worst ones are the Kiwayas / Famous that I've had. My current Famous FS-6 is a beast of a uke, but it doesn't sound right when I play a C chord in the G shape.

So these are all original strings... or replacements of exactly original-type strings?

 

[Pier]

right now I have two Kiwaya, a KTS4 and a KTC1, both with compensated saddle at the bridge, and both with perfect intonation up the neck with stock GHS black nylon strings and Aquila New and Super Nylgut I tried.

I've had problems with the GHS in the first days because they are softer and the C string is thinner than Aquila, and it's easier to "bend" them a bit while fretting (both moving the string or fretting it too hard), but after getting used to them, I don't have that problem anymore.

however, both Aquila and GHS have good intonation.

I haven't tried fluorocarbons.

 

[DuckyI]

Certainly not my experience. I would sooner suspect either fingering technique or a set of not yet fully stretched/faulty strings.

 

[rileyismycopilot]

UPDATE

I've replaced the compensated "nubone" saddle on the Mahalo LTD2 ukulele with a straight ebony saddle, with the tip of the saddle pushed back toward the butt.
It DOES intonate better now.
(my intonation test is pretty basic: play a C chord up the neck like 7-8-7-0, if it sounds good, it's good).

Side note: changing the saddle from nubone (hard plastic) to ebony removed some high end harshness that was annoying. The uke is very musical now.

 

[Eggs_n_Ham]

Interested in how this turns out. I would suspect that a saddle can technically only be compensated to a specific set of strings, so changing the string set might throw intonation off quite a bit. I also suspect that some companies use compensated saddles without really thinking about what that does exactly. Years ago, I started a discussion here that compensation on Kanilea's saddles makes no logical sense to me, and no one ever came up with a satisfying answer.

Ugh this worries me now. I've been considering changing the strings on my aNueNue amm3- with a compensated saddle.

 

[bilbo56]

Ugh this worries me now. I've been considering changing the strings on my aNueNue amm3- with a compensated saddle.

I'm interested as well. I've had my AMM3 about 14 months and have also been thinking about a string change. Maybe a call to HMS would help sort this out.

 

[Rakelele]

Ugh this worries me now. I've been considering changing the strings on my aNueNue amm3- with a compensated saddl

I'm interested as well. I've had my AMM3 about 14 months and have also been thinking about a string change. Maybe a call to HMS would help sort this out.

With intonation, there are so many different things at play, like string gauges, materials, tension, action height, finger pressure etc., so my advice would be to just try out and go from there.

 

[Eggs_n_Ham]

With intonation, there are so many different things at play, like string gauges, materials, tension, action height, finger pressure etc., so my advice would be to just try out and go from there.

I'll check with TUS via email whether the compensated saddle makes a difference or not with string change...

 

[hendulele]

My Famous/Kiwaya FS-1 had a problem with incessant buzzing (probably operator error; I’m a pretty sloppy player technically). The low action at the nut and saddle, along with the super-low frets, compounded the issue. i recently switched to D’Addario Nylgut (correction: Nyltech) strings, and the buzz has basically disappeared. I guess the thicker gauges artificially raised the action enough to overcome my bumbling style.

I’ve not been a fan of these strings until now. For this instrument, they’re pretty great.