Fitting Waverley friction pegs without countersink

BigJackBrass

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I've previously fitted Waverley pegs to a mahogany soprano by drilling the headstock with countersinks on the front and back, as recommended by StewMac. It works very well and the pegs are superb but it's not suitable for every situation: the headstock might be too thin or, as is the case with the uke I currently have, a permanent modification might not be desirable.

You can see from the first photograph why the countersink is needed, to maximise the surface area contact between the wood and the metal which creates the friction for the tuners to work at their best. I've been wondering whether putting a countersunk washer—also called a cup or finishing washer—between the body of the tuner and the back of the headstock would do the trick, something like the black washers in the second picture. Two options come to mind: a nylon countersunk washer; or a metal countersunk washer with a thin lining washer (silicone or plastic, maybe) to stop it being metal against metal. The metal washer would probably look better overall but involves an extra complication.

Has anyone tried something similar? or are there any glaring issues I might be missing?

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Is the taper of the countersunk washer the same as that of the peg?

I ran into a similar problem with my Gibson UB-1, but in that case the back of the headstock was just countersunk too far (and the springs were shot). I just replaced the tuners with a set of Ping friction tuners.
 
I couldn't find any suitable nylon washers but did get hold of some steel ones. Obviously I wouldn't want to be turning metal against metal, so I cut some leather washers to fit between the washers and the pegs.

It didn't work at all 😁 Although the angle of the countersink was spot-on the metal washer wouldn't stay in place on the back of the headstock, slipping around so that the pegs were not perpendicular. Since I couldn't immediately fix that without more involved work than I was prepared to do I decided to simply go back to the Waverlys sitting in the unmodified peg holes for now.

It might work with a larger internal hole on the washer—I used an M5—so that the peg could sit lower and bite against the wood as well as the washer itself, but that might look rather ungainly and I'm not sure it's worth the effort.
 
Just a thought - it sounds as though the shafts are much smaller than the holes in the headstock. Try wrapping something around the shaft to tighten the fit of the shafts in the stock.

As I was typing that, I was thinking that a possible problem with that solution was that the back of the headstock was already counter sunk, and the cylindrical part of the hole might not be long enough for it to work.

How about filling the countersunk hole on the back with something (wood putty?) and drilling a shaft-size hole through it? That would not necessarily be a permanent modification ...

I wouldn't worry about metal-to-metal contact between the Waverlys and the washers, but if you are, then I would suggest some plastic washers. But metal-to-metal is how the Waverlys work on the front of the headstock.
 
…metal-to-metal is how the Waverlys work on the front of the headstock
That's true, hadn't considered that. I had wondered about putting a sleeve around the shaft of the tuner but as yet haven't tried it.
 
I’m just wondering and maybe this is not going to be a decorative solution. As you had space to trial washers have you got the space to trial a thin wooden cover plate into which to drill the necessary holes and countersinks? Some glues are, I believe, removable with a little heat and water so additions could be temporary / reversible. It’s only a suggestion for exploration but gelatine glue is cheap (? buy the ‘raw’ material from the home baking section in the supermarket) and, I believe, removable.
 
That's an interesting suggestion, although as you say it might not be the most aesthetically pleasing option. In practice it's a similar idea to using wooden washers, which I very recently discovered are available, and applying a countersink to them. If I can find a simple way to hold the shaft stable through the headstock (a thin expandable wall plug is what I'm currently considering) then I probably wouldn't need the glue.
 
My suggestion above is an avenue to consider, not an elegant solution but maybe it might work out for you. I didn’t know about wooden washers and they might work. However I suspect that the tuner’s taper will tend to split the grain on a wooden washer (acts like a wedge) whilst sheet material will have a much better chance of being OK. Soft wood dowels ‘temporarily’ glued into the headstock and then drilled out would be my first route for spacers.

IIRC Prof Chris has some knowledge of working with gelatine glue, if you contact him then he might advise you both further and usefully.
 
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If I can find a simple way to hold the shaft stable through the headstock (a thin expandable wall plug is what I'm currently considering) then I probably wouldn't need the glue.
While I'm not a luthier, I do have some experience at "making do with what's at hand." :)

Have you considered using a short piece of nylon or plastic tubing to fill the gap between the shaft and headstock hole? It wouldn't need to be glued in, and since the shaft doesn't touch the sides of the hole anyway, the nylon shouldn't impact the ability of the pegs to hold. Depending on clearances, maybe something as simple as a piece of shrinkwrap tubing would work.
 
While I'm not a luthier, I do have some experience at "making do with what's at hand." :)

Have you considered using a short piece of nylon or plastic tubing to fill the gap between the shaft and headstock hole? It wouldn't need to be glued in, and since the shaft doesn't touch the sides of the hole anyway, the nylon shouldn't impact the ability of the pegs to hold. Depending on clearances, maybe something as simple as a piece of shrinkwrap tubing would work.
I did indeed try this, but couldn't get a precise enough sizing for it to work. With the Waverly design the tube would need to sit firmly inside the wood of the headstock and the tuner would then press down against the ends of it, due to where the peg applies friction in order to work.

In the end I went to the toolbox and decided to simply do the job normally. The countersinks needed are not deep so will not affect switching to different tuners in future, if required. It's been a fun exercise tinkering with alternatives but for this uke doing it "the old-fashioned way" has worked perfectly.

And they really are such excellent tuners.
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They really look great. I love the vintage look and smaller knobs than are found on many modern tuners. Great job!
 
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